<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1556</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/22/99 4:01:23 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Reply-to:	traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
To:	traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 22 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1556<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: In Jokes<BR>
re:  Christmal Carols for the Modern Mentality<BR>
Re: silly traveller<BR>
Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
RE: England<BR>
RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
Tramp Freighters<BR>
Re: 3I Sports<BR>
Re: China (was: United States)<BR>
Mules (was: Re: Ethnicity)<BR>
Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
Re: Scumbags<BR>
Re: Unconscionable gun use (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517)<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:05:34 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: In Jokes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> > (several exchanges later, Sid's Vargr kicks the marine to death, while<BR>
><BR>
> Hmmmm... correct me if I am wrong here, but I have always thought <BR>
> Vargr physiology makes their kicks pretty ineffective, right? I seem <BR>
> to remember the rule of thumb... "Vargr can't kick." <shrug>.<BR>
<BR>
Forwards? I tend to agree. But *backwards* is a whole different story.<BR>
Being digigrade[1], rather than plantigrade[2], Vargr are likely to be<BR>
able to kick well *behind* themselves, and also do *nasty* "belly<BR>
rakes" to someone they've grappled with.<BR>
<BR>
[1] walking with only the toes and "toe pad" on the ground, and what<BR>
    would be the rest of the foot on a human bein a long set of bones<BR>
    leading up to a hock(?) which is the joint that's the heel & ankle<BR>
    on humans.<BR>
<BR>
[2] Walking with those bones on the ground, and the hock(?) being an<BR>
    ankle. <BR>
<BR>
Note. If you ever try to "walk digigrade" keep in mind that it is *not*<BR>
done like a human on tip-toe. Instead, both the ankle *and* the knee<BR>
are kept bent. This keeps the center of gravity over the ground contact<BR>
points, but results in a *very* different gait. Sort of a "glide". Even<BR>
without make-up, you look quite non-human.<BR>
<BR>
It's a strain for humans to walk this way for long. I can't even do it<BR>
since I gained some weight. My ankles aren't up to it, and my knees<BR>
aren't real happy either. <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, if you try, you'll probably *know* when you get it right<BR>
because all of a sudden it's *easier* to move than in any other posture<BR>
except our "normal" one. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:25:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: re:  Christmal Carols for the Modern Mentality<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
<BR>
>These are to traditional tunes; it shouldn't be too<BR>
>difficult to figure out which ones...<BR>
<BR>
>Christmas time is drawing nigh,<BR>
>Snowflakes drift down from the sky.<BR>
>Angels we have heard on high<BR>
>Tell us to go out and BUY...<BR>
<BR>
I consider Tom Lehrer songs to be traditional tunes.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:29:11 +0000<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: silly traveller<BR>
<BR>
In message <19991217072516.1134.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com>, Kyle<BR>
Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com> writes<BR>
>Now, new career path... runs just like a merchant<BR>
>character, only the retirement benefits table goes<BR>
>like:<BR>
>1. cash<BR>
>2. booty (har har, stuff dat ain't cash yet)<BR>
>3. parrot<BR>
>4. cutlass <BR>
>5. annoyingly persistent law enforcement offical who<BR>
>you killed their child/parent/spouse/partner <BR>
<BR>
crocodile<BR>
<BR>
>once but<BR>
>have forgotten it<BR>
>6. the Explosive Decompression Long Jump<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:09:38 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
At 13:14 -0500 22/12/99, "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >At this moment? REM's 'Automatic for the People' while I write. ;-)<BR>
>Good call - I'm at the office and am afflicted with alternate "Greatest<BR>
>Christmas Album In The World....Ever" and a Disney compilation....I THINK<BR>
>I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF AFORE THE DAY'S OUT....<BR>
<BR>
Don't do that! That's fatal! There again, I'm on the Christmas break <BR>
so I can listen to what I want ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Feng Shui....hmmmmmm<BR>
<BR>
Lots of silly linked fight scenes. A bit of an end of year laugh...<BR>
<BR>
> >I've plans for Faded Suns, 7th Sea and Traveller in the new year.<BR>
><BR>
>Faded Suns any good?  Looks very 40K to my fleeting glance....<BR>
<BR>
Well, maybe it's a bit 40k in so much as 40k is a rip off of Dune <BR>
with Chaos Spikey bits.<BR>
<BR>
It's the nearest thing to a Dune like setting I've seen. The scope <BR>
for politicking looks great, but I've got to work out how to start <BR>
the scenario off. I like it - the system looks interesting; the <BR>
downside is that it verges a little on fantasy with the apparent <BR>
working of Psi or magic. *But* it's got a great setting - if you want <BR>
a feel, pick up the short story book 'The Sinful Stars' which gives a <BR>
good flavour of how the game is meant to be. Leisure had it for 9.99 <BR>
a while ago... I like it enough to have bought most of the <BR>
supplements (I did get a good deal at GenCon though 4 each!)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:17:32 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
At 14:38 -0500 22/12/99, Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
>He's calling for help, TMLers!  Remember, isteve,<BR>
>suicide is never a solution.  Why don't you take out<BR>
>the office manager instead?  He or she is probably the<BR>
>one who ordered the musical torture.  And please don't<BR>
>use a firearm, or you'll just start the politicians<BR>
>talking about banning them<BR>
<BR>
Err, they are already banned in most cases....<BR>
<BR>
Dom,,,,,,,,,,,,,,wibble<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:20:47 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: England<BR>
<BR>
At 17:03 -0500 22/12/99,  "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> No offense - you gave us The<BR>
>Doors, and for that alone I can forgive America most things  *grin*<BR>
<BR>
iSteve! Don't encourage them - look what they tried to give us after <BR>
the 'Doors': 'Windows'.<BR>
<BR>
Dom ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:24:52 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller roadshows<BR>
<BR>
At 17:03 -0500 22/12/99, "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Maybe we should all get together for a game - somewhere neutral, like<BR>
> >Todmorden, which *should* be in Lancashire again <g>.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >         If we could make that Hebden Bridge, Jae Campbell of Signal GK<BR>
> >zine<BR>
> >lives there!<BR>
><BR>
>Careful guys, this is sounding dangerously close to a plan....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm in Somerset (*) for most of the next few days. :-( Looks like <BR>
I'll miss the fun.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
(*) <West Country Dialect>'I can't read and I can't right, but I come <BR>
from Somerset and I can drive tractor' </West Country Dialect> ;-)<BR>
<BR>
NB I don't come from Mummerset.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:02:47 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Tramp Freighters<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
><BR>
>I rather expect that a "tramp freighter" is worth considerably than<BR>
>you'd think (and I'm talking about the current sea-going type). So<BR>
>perhaps we need to reconsider our overly romantic view of tramp<BR>
>freighters.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I used to be involved in activities on the Miami River, Miami, Florida USA.<BR>
You would not believe the condition of some of the "tramp freighters" there<BR>
a few years before the "port rules" were tightened.   These vessels ply<BR>
between the river and various minor    ports in Haiti, the Dominican<BR>
Republic and who knows where.  You can see them on the river today loaded<BR>
down with "used" bicycles, "used" cars,old mattresses and stacks of lawn<BR>
chairs piled into every nook and cranny.  All the old wooden hulls are<BR>
pretty much gone now,  but the steel hulls usually have a name set in the<BR>
steel plate of stern and bow painted out and a new "nom du merchant"<BR>
emblazoned in paint.   I picture free traders on their last legs plying out<BR>
of such backwater ports hauling cast off from one world to a second hand but<BR>
appreciative market on another.   By the way no one in Miami ever expects to<BR>
get a stolen bike back one look at the huge piles loaded on the such vessels<BR>
is enough to discourage anyone.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:48:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Sports<BR>
<BR>
Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> Ob Traveller...IMTU gravball is more akin to handball<BR>
> than anything else,<BR>
> ie non-contact.  I think most folks run it a little<BR>
> differently. What other games are popular in<BR>
> YTU's?Eris<BR>
><BR>
> IMTU, Gladiators! Where people get together in those<BR>
> power-loader suits (like in Aliens) and battle it out!<BR>
> Yes, manslaughter is decriminalised on the world where<BR>
> this happens... though they're not allowed to mount<BR>
> guns, blasters, any kind of projectile weapon... just<BR>
> swords, axes, clubs, industrial power saws... Brutal,<BR>
> but popular!<BR>
<BR>
Many worlds IMTU have laws requiring duelists (including<BR>
gladiators) to sign a "Declaration of Intent to Self<BR>
Terminate" before committing suicide.  Entering a duel<BR>
or gladiatorial "game" is considered to be a form of<BR>
suicide.  On those worlds, failure to file such a<BR>
declaration means that the winner faces murder (or at<BR>
least sentientslaughter) charges, so both parties (or thier<BR>
"handlers") insist on seeing the declaration before the<BR>
games begin.<BR>
<BR>
Races are also a popular form of entertainment.  IMTU,<BR>
people will race just about anything.  The poni are always<BR>
popular.  They also race beds, land scooners and on<BR>
foot on land.  In water, tubs (like you take a bath in),<BR>
power boats, sailing vessels and swimming (usually<BR>
dominated by the Delphi if no divisions are made) are<BR>
usually well attended.  In the air everything that floats or<BR>
flies is raced somewhere often with mandatory<BR>
maneuvers (you know, rolls, wing-overs, Immalmans,<BR>
etc.).  And of course in space, sailing (mag as well as<BR>
"solar") formula racing (e.g. using standard engines,<BR>
tweaked to within mm of distruction and in the lightest<BR>
possible hulls often barely or even not spaceworthy<BR>
otherwise).<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:48:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: China (was: United States)<BR>
<BR>
Kelly St.Clair <kellys@efn.org> wrote:<BR>
> The trading fleets that represented a brief change from historical<BR>
> isolationism, during what the rest of the world came to call the Age of<BR>
> Discovery.  The ships were soon called back and destroyed; no profit in<BR>
> stirring up the foreign devils.<BR>
<BR>
There was also an American by the name of James (his<BR>
first name escapes me just now, it might have been<BR>
Henry) who built the only profitable trans-continental<BR>
railroad (Pacific Northern, IIRC) all by himself without<BR>
government subsidies.  After running rail from coast to<BR>
coast, Mr. James started building a fleet to trade with<BR>
China.  Just as he was getting his shipping line profitable,<BR>
the US gov. stepped in and declaired it to be a monopoly.<BR>
He sold off his ships and retired on the profit.  Who knows<BR>
what might have happened if the gov. goons had left him<BR>
alone?<BR>
<BR>
> The man-carrying kite, whose creator was put to death by an Emperor who<BR>
> feared its consequences.  (Or was that just a fable?)<BR>
><BR>
> Afraid I don't have a third, but a little research (perhaps in the modern<BR>
> era) might turn up something.  Tien An Men Square, perhaps, if one counts<BR>
> "democracy" as an innovation...<BR>
><BR>
> My layman's observation is that Chinese culture values communitarian<BR>
> stability and continuity over individual dynamism and disruption.  Look at<BR>
> what happened when Disney plucked one (possibly the only) individualist<BR>
> story out of Chinese legend, then tried to show it in its country of<BR>
> origin.  MULAN bombed in China because she was "too independent, too<BR>
> selfish."  Too Western.<BR>
<BR>
I recall a quote I have read somewhere, "You may have<BR>
conquered us today, but tomorrow your children will be<BR>
Chinese."<BR>
- -- A Chinese Statesman to a Japanese invasion force<BR>
Commander.<BR>
<BR>
Be durned if he wasn't right.  Notice how little has<BR>
changed under the "Communists" today.  It seems every<BR>
day China gets more and more like it has traditionally<BR>
been.  I guess that China is a good example of just what<BR>
"cultural inertia" really means.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:49:04 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Mules (was: Re: Ethnicity)<BR>
<BR>
Eris wrote:<BR>
> On 12/21/99 at 06:04 PM,  "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
> >> Sterile "mules" are more likely, but if the drift has been large<BR>
> >> enough, you won't get any live births, and if it's much greater than<BR>
> >> *that*, you won't get fertilization.<BR>
><BR>
> >> > What other canonical crossbreeding is there?<BR>
><BR>
> IMTU, most of the human races are interfertile, but that's IMTU.<BR>
><BR>
> >> No idea if the topic has ever been mentioned in canon.<BR>
><BR>
> >Just as a matter of interest not all mules are sterile<BR>
><BR>
> Quite true...<grin> hence those herds of wild mules running across the<BR>
> plains!  </grin><BR>
><BR>
> Has anyone ever heard of a pair of fertile mules being able to breed true?<BR>
> That I *really* doubt.<BR>
<BR>
I grew up in Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri and while I<BR>
cannot recall ever hearing of a male mule impregnating a<BR>
female mule (or any other critter for that matter), I have<BR>
seen foals born alive to female mules sired by both<BR>
jackasses and stallions.  Come to think of it, I don't<BR>
remember ever having been around a male mule, I'm not<BR>
even sure there is such a critter.<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
I got curious and decided to see what the MS Encarta<BR>
had to say on the topic.  There's not much, so I'll just<BR>
quote the whole article:<BR>
>>>>>><BR>
Mule, hybrid offspring of the jackass (male ass) and the<BR>
mare, much used and valued in many parts of the world<BR>
as a beast of burden. The head, ears, croup, and tail<BR>
resemble those of the ass, but in bulk and stature the<BR>
mule resembles the horse, and seems to excel both its<BR>
parents in sagacity, muscular endurance, surefootedness,<BR>
and length of life. The hinny is the hybrid offspring of the<BR>
jenny (female ass) and the stallion (male horse). It has a<BR>
bushier tail and a heavier body than the mule and is by<BR>
nature a more tractable animal.<BR>
<BR>
Male mules are generally sterile, but sterility is not a<BR>
necessary consequence of hybridization. Female mules<BR>
have been successfully crossed with horses or asses to<BR>
produce foals.<BR>
<BR>
"Mule," Microsoft(R) Encarta(R) 97 Encyclopedia.<BR>
(c) 1993-1996 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.<BR>
<<<<<<<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, I guess there _are_ male mules.  I remind me of a<BR>
rube who upon first visiting a zoo and seeing a giraffe is<BR>
heard to exclaim, "There ain't no sech animal!"<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:53:42 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: How much should a starship cost<BR>
<BR>
Jim & Peta Lawrie <jimpeta@primus.com.au> wrote:<BR>
Nick wrote:<BR>
> >There is a 55-ton canonical jump boat.<BR>
<BR>
Canonically speaking, everything I have ever read says<BR>
that a Jump Capable Craft must be at least 1400 cubic<BR>
meters in size.  I wouldn't doubt that you could build one<BR>
that only masses 55 tonnes (or even 55 short tons), but<BR>
even back in the first edition of CT, canon has always<BR>
been a 1400 cubic meter minimum for Jump Capable<BR>
Craft.<BR>
<BR>
> Is there any more info on this vessel? I've been thinking about Jump<BR>
Capable<BR>
> Life Boats.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, IT&T can build a jump capable lifeboat.  They<BR>
only require something like 147 cubic meters to store<BR>
them but they are trey expensivo.<BR>
<BR>
If you want to know how that is possible, check out<BR>
my current THUDDD design:<BR>
http://thuddd10.homepage.com<BR>
Of course, this one is not jump capable, but the same<BR>
principles apply.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:54:03 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Scumbags<BR>
<BR>
Steven Hudson <shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca> wrote:<BR>
> >From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk><BR>
> >Call me ignorant (because I am, living way out of the CON US), but surely<BR>
if<BR>
> >all firearms were illegal, then finding any kind of gun means you can peg<BR>
><BR>
>   Yes, but there are clearly numerous cases (at least in rural areas)<BR>
> where having a long-arm available is very reasonable. In cities you<BR>
> have to decide whether society is safer with plentiful firearms as a<BR>
> home-defence issue or with the option removed, or whether the debate is<BR>
> even to be framed in those terms - a political decision that I can accept.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that if you eliminate the possibility of<BR>
private ownership of weapons, then the responsibility of<BR>
guarding the populace would fall on the sholders of the<BR>
LEOs and the US Supreme Court has ruled loud and<BR>
clear that cops do NOT have such a responsibility.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:54:30 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Unconscionable gun use (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517)<BR>
<BR>
Eris <eris@pcola.gulf.net> wrote:<BR>
> On 12/21/99 at 09:58 AM,  "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
> said:<BR>
> >Having lived in the uS Southwest most of my life, I am<BR>
> >accustomed to seeing weapons, long ones, short ones,<BR>
> >smooth ones, rifled ones, sharp ones, blunt ones.  One<BR>
> >of the things that all the areas of the Southwest that I have lived in<BR>
> >had in common was that you don't point a weapon, any weapon, at someone<BR>
> >without cause and get away with<BR>
> >it.  You leave it in its holster, sheath, sling, ect. until you are ready<BR>
> >to use it and when you unholster, unsheath, unsling,<BR>
> >unetc. it, everyone assumes that you are going to use it.<BR>
> >If you use it for anything other than self defense or to kill meat (or to<BR>
> >practice for one of those), you have committed<BR>
> >a crime and will probably be punished.<BR>
><BR>
> That's what I was taught in the US Southeast, as well.  Some people scare<BR>
> me to death the way they swing around sharp and pointy things, much less<BR>
> things that go bang.  Gun control means something else entirely for some<BR>
> of us. <g><BR>
<BR>
Now that you mention it, I did notice a similar attitude<BR>
while I was in the US Southeast last year ('98).<BR>
<BR>
So tell me Eris, did you mean that gun control is (or at<BR>
least should be) the responsibility of the gun owner (or<BR>
holder as the case may be)?  ;-)<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:54:41 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca> wrote:<BR>
> Wayne Ewart writes:<BR>
> >Don't forget we gave you football and basketball<BR>
><BR>
> Let's not start a "who invented basketball" flamewar, OK?<BR>
<BR>
And don't forget Abner Doubleday's contribution to sports.<BR>
At least I think the inventor of baseball was Abner<BR>
Doubleday.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:54:58 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:<BR>
> At 16:52 -0500 21/12/99, "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> <On the subversion of the US by Canada you responded><BR>
><BR>
> >Don't forget we gave you football and basketball<BR>
><BR>
> No you didn't, you gave them that strange game with body armour, a<BR>
> rugby ball and commercial breaks, and basketball.<BR>
><BR>
> *We* (the UK) gave them football, which is always played with a round<BR>
> ball, 22 men and a referee, in halves.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the game with body armour uses a ball some-<BR>
what different from that used in rugby.  It's somewhat<BR>
more pointy and therefore rolls somewhat more<BR>
eratically.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:55:16 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
> From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<snip><BR>
> > ObTrav: is there much cultural exchange between Imperial Space<BR>
> >and Solomani Space? Do people in the Solomani Confederacy<BR>
> >watch television shows from the Imperium (or vice versa)?  Or<BR>
> >movies?<BR>
><BR>
> In my Traveller universe that would be a big *yes*. The Solomani might be<BR>
> able to come up with mean genetic modifications, but they can't come up<BR>
with<BR>
> Tom Jetland: High Passage.<BR>
><BR>
> *Everybody* watches the Tom Jetland movies.<BR>
><BR>
> Except the artsy types who watch those pansy movies like "Lady Jaenshi's<BR>
> Holiday" or "Dresden's Decision", but they don't count.<BR>
><BR>
> A big shiny TML "No-Prize" to anyone who knows the two in-jokes which are<BR>
> encoded in the movie titles above.<BR>
><BR>
> ObObTrav: Does anyone else pepper their Traveller universes with all<BR>
manner<BR>
> of in-jokes that nobody will ever get?<BR>
<BR>
I have been known to.  Very often if they do get them,<BR>
they serve as important clues.  I have had groups chase<BR>
after the elusive Crimson Clupeidae or the Scarlet<BR>
AleWife for months, even years (of game time).<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 15:55:25 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
David J. Golden <goldendj@pcisys.net> wrote:<BR>
> At 02:43 am 12/22/99 -0000, you wrote:<BR>
> >From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
> >>At 16:52 -0500 21/12/99, "Wayne Ewart" <wewart@home.com> wrote:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >><On the subversion of the US by Canada you responded><BR>
> >><BR>
> >>>Don't forget we gave you football and basketball<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>No you didn't, you gave them that strange game with body armour, a<BR>
> >>rugby ball and commercial breaks, and basketball.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>*We* (the UK) gave them football, which is always played with a<BR>
> round<BR>
> >>ball, 22 men and a referee, in halves.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >Eeeeewww... Icky! <g><BR>
><BR>
> I agree ... splitting the referee in halves makes a mess all over ...<BR>
<BR>
Not if you use a high energy laser (unless you spill stuff).  ;-)<BR>
_______________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1556<BR>
***********************************<BR>
<BR>
To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR>
<BR>
in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".<BR>
If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>
coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>
address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>
"local-traveller":<BR>
<BR>
subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR>
<BR>
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>
in the commands above with "traveller".<BR>
<BR>
Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR>
</XMP></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0f0f0f" BACK="#fffffe" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
<BR>
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>
Return-Path: <owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Received: from  rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (rly-yd02.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.2]) by air-yd04.mail.aol.com (v67.7) with ESMTP; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 19:01:23 -0500<BR>
Received: from  lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (v67.7) with ESMTP; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 19:01:02 -0500<BR>
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA97819;<BR>
	Wed, 22 Dec 1999 19:00:40 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:58:25 -0500<BR>
Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA97662<BR>
	for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:58:25 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:58:25 -0500 (EST)<BR>
Message-Id: <199912222358.SAA97662@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1556<BR>
Reply-To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
<BR>
</HTML>
